[LazyWeb] Advice needed from employment law types

[dancefloorlandmine]

Unfiltered post

One of my friends works in a school. A while back (about two months ago), while in work, they had an accident, damaging their teeth. The accident involved a student, but was an accident, rather than an 'incident' - no blame attaches to either party, and an accident log report was made and signed. The dentist recommends removal of both bottom front teeth, and replacement by bridgework or similar.

Unfortunately, my friend cannot afford the dental treatment required, or even a second opinion. Their boss says that work will not pay, because "accidents can happen anywhere".

Workplace is non unionised, and they are reluctant to sue except as a last resort, due to career suicide likelihood.

Anyone out there have any advice, or know anyone who could advise?

Comments

[christhegoth.livejournal.com]

accident advice helpline or sites like that. They specialise in accidents in the workplace. The school should have some kind of cover for injuries to their staff in the line of duty and that. Indemnity insurance? I think.

I'm guessing the school is fobbing them off so that they don't mess up their no-claims.

[d-floorlandmine.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing the school is fobbing them off so that they don't mess up their no-claims.

That's what I was thinking.

[karen2205]

IME, schools tend to have staff who are members of a variety of different unions, rather than having most people as members of one union. So, finding out who the union reps are is a good move to see if they can offer any informal advice. Joining one of the teaching and affiliated unions may also be a good move for the future.

Can your friend find an NHS Dentist/obtain a referral for a second opinion via the NHS? Are they eligible for the NHS low income scheme? Are they claiming all the benefits/tax credits to which they're entitled?

In terms of legal advice - try a CAB or a law centre or see if there are firms with expertise in both employment law and personal injury offering 'free initial interviews'. Legal aid isn't going to be available. I don't know enough about how conditional fee agreements ('no win, no fee') operate in this area - if your friend is operating financially at a level where they can't afford a second opinion from a dentist I'd be loath to suggest going down this route as there will nearly always be some additional costs excluded from the insurance cover (eg. costs incurred before the cover starts).

Practically, job hunting for a nicer school and/or some specific training courses to avoid accidents like this in the future is probably the way forward. It would be possible to go down the formal grievance route, but I suspect in terms of damaging relationships with colleagues this wouldn't be wise until they've found another job.

Maybe they could negotiate with the HR dept for an interest free loan for the cost of the treatment to be paid back via a deduction from their wages over a period of time? [this would tie them into staying with the same employer for a while, as the whole would be payable when they leave].

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not part of a union and unfortunately I live and work in a rural part of Devon.
The school is a boarding school for young men with social, emotional and behavioural issues, alongside autism and ADHD (to name a few)
We are fully trained in teamteach, a safe type of restraint but this accident was as such and not the result of an aggressive incident.

[ivory-goddess.livejournal.com]

On a side-note, what about a dental teaching hospital? They tend to offer vastly reduced-price or free treatment by supervised dental students. I think Kings College Hspital does (or did) that kind of treatment.

[d-floorlandmine.livejournal.com]

Ooh, that's a good idea. Unfortunately, I think they might be a long way from the nearest such centre of civilisation, but it's something to think about.

[jozafeen.livejournal.com]

Yes, I'd suggest a dental hospital too.

[morgaine-x.livejournal.com]

The workplace should have a certificate of employer's liability insurance displayed - often it's in a staff room. Your friend should check who the insurer is and contact them - they probably have a helpline. If it is a local authority school, the LA may be able to assist.

[(Anonymous)]

Thankyou, I will check that out when I get into work on Wednesday.

[caffeine-fairy.livejournal.com]

I'm not at work atm so can't look it up but I'm pretty sure our Employer's Liability Insurance covers costs pertaining to accidental injury. If that's the case, I'd be surprised if her's doesn't.

[prosperine.livejournal.com]

ok, Im assuming this is in England?

on the practical side short of looking at getting a loan for the dental work - I dont see what other option she'll have aside making the claim... career suicide wise, well it would only reflect really badly if she took the piss with time off and incidental damage ( realistically, who could expect her not to make a claim in this situation?!)

the school should have employers liability cover - if it doesnt they are breaking all sorts of rules and so making a claim will be reaaaaly easy. Yes accidents do happen everywhere - which is why there is insurance.

CFA - the solicitors will run through it but things to be wary off are if its less than £1000, you prolly wont get the costs so it can cost a bomb! and the *disbursements* which are medical and site reports will need to be paid up as due and most often before any monetary offer is made, these can be anything from £450 to nearly a grand if they are quite specific (dental ones are preety costly) - some PI firms will roll the client, some wont. -

Most PI claims are no win no fee and most places give free advise on the phone or in a quick meeting. - the Law Society will be able to tell her who does that in her area.

my other alarm rings at the fact it was an "accident" not an "incident" - contrabutory negligence is a worrying word in PI!

Thats about it for my PI knowledge im afraid.

[d-floorlandmine.livejournal.com]

It's a private special needs school - so my understanding is that incidents are those where there's an actual action by one of the children resulting in injury, while accidents are those where it's not an assault.

Employer's liability cover - that was the term I was trying to remember. Ta!

[(Anonymous)]

I've never had a sick day or a 'late' in the three years or so that i've worked there.
The NHS want £200 for the work but I would like a private second opinion to see if my teeth could be saved, a private consultation is approx £30.

[alasdair1076.livejournal.com]

Can't add much to what's already been said I'm afraid. A teaching hospital is a spectacular idea as is talking to the local CAB. Also, were it go to a hearing of some sort the entry in the log book and the Insurance certificate being displayed (Or not) would be a very, very big hit in your friend's favour.

The only other thing that occurs to me is for them to document the incident in writing, date it and have it signed either by a trusted colleague, someone who was there or someone with some societal standing. That way if it does go any further, there's a written, signed account of the actual events.

[(Anonymous)]

Luckily there were 2 witnesses; one member of staff who has since retired, but her husband still works with us, and a one of the students.

[evangeline2670.livejournal.com]

When filling out the forms for my accident at work (where I tore my calf muscle dancing with the kids) I noticed on the employers insurance claim form (which we were filling in to claim for costs incurred to cover my sick days) that there was a note saying that cover includes such things as treatment/physio etc that may be beneficial to the injured employee.
As a school they really should have some kind of insurance, but it does depend on the position your friend holds - I know in my school, teachers and nursery nurses are covered, but LSA's and non-permanent TA's aren't, but even so, as others have mentioned, there should be employers liability insurance, with a certificate displayed in the school office and/or staffroom because accidents do happen, and as they are labelling it an accident, rather than an incident, there should be some cover.

[(Anonymous)]

I am a permanent member of staff but as it's a boarding school for EBD kids and I work on the residentail side NOT the teaching, still.........
I'll be checking the staff room on Wednesday when I'm next on shift!

[friend-of-tofu.livejournal.com]

Even the suggestion that the employers wouldn't be willing to pay out of their own insurance is just boggling! The standards for "safe system of work" are very high - I would suggest they speak to a PI specialist who will give an introductory interview cheap.

[friend-of-tofu.livejournal.com]

Also, tell them to have a look at the TUC website - it usually has some downloadable PDFs about various relevant rights at work, and has lists of resources.

[(Anonymous)]

Thankyou to everyone, particularly d_floorlandmine (for the wider audience)
xx