[Diary] Schedule

[dancefloorlandmine]

Right, looks like I'll be scoring the lyrics quiz on Thursday or Friday, which gives you a few days to have a go.

In the meantime, I'll try to get around to scanning the pics from the last Dead and Buried - hopefully before this one. And also working on a lyrics quiz on which people should be able to get reasonable scores (although there have been some surprising hits and misses on the one above).

Schedule
Tue - eve: At home. Doing washing up, revision,¹ and suchlike domestic tasks.
Wed - eve: MSc lecture and revision
Thu - eve: Going out for a drink with Kitty
Fri - eve: Quite possibly Dead and Buried
Sat - day: Board gaming, as arrange by thecesspit. All welcome - see his LJ for details.
Sat - eve: Party in East London
Sun - day: Recovering and garden pottering, with probably revision
Sun - eve: Clarets, anyone?
Mon - eve: Date - but need to sort details

So, looking like another full week again.

¹ With apologies to valkyriekaren for the use of the 'Oxford comma'

Comments

[flick.livejournal.com]

That's not an Oxford comma, that's just an incorrect comma.

An Oxford comma is used thusly:

At Kings Cross station, one can take the Picadilly, Victoria, Northern, Circle, Hammersmith and City, and Metropolitan underground lines.

[d-floorlandmine.livejournal.com]

OK, it's just an incorrect comma! [grin] I tend to use it as standard, because otherwise I think it looks really odd when used in the Oxford way, to deal with lists containing paired items. However, I shall take note of the opprobrium this attracts, and may mend my ways, in the interests of remaining suitably pedantic. [grin]

[flick.livejournal.com]

[laughs]

They do look odd. I think that Americans use commas like you did, but I may be wrong.

[maradydd.livejournal.com]

It varies from styleguide to styleguide. I was taught to delimit every member of a series with commas, but I probably only do it half the time any more.

[sushidog.livejournal.com]

Um... isn't that exactly how Simon used it? "(suchlike tasks" is a member of the list, no?)

Or are you saying that the Oxford comma is used to delineate a "compound" member of the list (Hammersmoth and City)? That's certainly not how i'd understood the Oxford Comma. Am I missing something?

[flick.livejournal.com]

The latter: an Oxford comma is used when the penultimate thing on the list has an "and" in it, to avoid confusion.

[sushidog.livejournal.com]

Really? I always thought it was just the comma before the last item in a list, which some people don't use!
*scurries off to re-read Eats, Shoots, and Leaves*

[flick.livejournal.com]

From the Economist Style Guide:
Do not put a comma before and at the end of a sequence of items unless one of the items includes another and. Thus The doctor suggested an aspirin, half a grapefruit and a cup of broth. But he ordered scrambled eggs, whisky and soda, and a selection from the trolley. But American usage is different; see Part II.
and
Americans often put a comma before the and: eggs, bacon, potatoes, and cheese. The British usually write eggs, bacon, potatoes and cheese.

[sushidog.livejournal.com]

"heh" I can't really take grammatical advice seriously form a source which fails to put the "and" in quotation marks in that first sentence...
This and this back up what I thought about the Oxford comma, and suggest that Simon's original use was correct (at least as far as the OUP is concerned, and that's good enough for me!)!

[flick.livejournal.com]

My bad re: the last of inverted commas. The original gets around it by formatting differently. I should have done the same.

[blue-condition.livejournal.com]

The doctor suggested an aspirin, half a grapefruit and a cup of broth. But he ordered scrambled eggs, whisky and soda, and a selection from the trolley.

That has a whiff of Ian Fleming to it. Sounds like Commander Bond recuperating from another spell of homoerotic espionage excesses...

[flick.livejournal.com]

Actually, it seems to vary. I've just done some more googling, and other sites say that it is any serial comma, but that the instance I originally quoted is the only one that everyone agrees is acceptable (rather than just the Americans).

[steer.livejournal.com]

That is what I thought too.

[steer.livejournal.com]

Hmm... are you sure? The canonical argument in favour of the Oxford comma ("To my parents, Ayn Rand and God" -- a hypothetical book dedication) no such specification is made.

Some web refs:

http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutother/oxfordcomma

http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxabandc.html

http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-oxf1.htm

But these are only web refs and my grammar is poor. I don't use them myself but have no strong feelings.

[flick.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I've been googling too and I'm less sure than I was.

I was always taught that it was used to avoid the and... and compound, but it may be that I was taught that becuase the idea of a serial comma for any other reason was completely beyond the pale!

[steer.livejournal.com]

I think I was taught the same as you actually -- don't put a comma before that last and unless you really, really need to. But (as I said) my grammar is awful.

[wechsler.livejournal.com]

Which MSc are you doing?

[d-floorlandmine.livejournal.com]

Computer Science at Birkbeck. Part-time, which is so much joy! [grin] C++ programming introduction is fine (mostly), set theory is fine (apart from the American lecturer), but computer architecture (with a starring role for logic gates and assembler code) is a bit of a pain.

[d-floorlandmine.livejournal.com]

a starring role for logic gates and assembler code

Obviously, given the fellow pedants who infest my LJ, and the fact that logic gates and assembler code are different topics, I meant to write:

"starring roles for logic gates and assembler code"

[steer.livejournal.com]

the 'Oxford comma'

To my parents, Ayn Rand and God.

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

Yes, but that only works if one item in the list is a plural, or is a compound joined with an 'and' (fish and chips, Hammersmith & City, raining cats and dogs). It's certainly no argument for ending every list that way!

[steer.livejournal.com]

Yes, I don't use such commas myself -- I just find the quote amusing and use it at every possible opportunity. [Though I think Ayn Rand would bully God horribly if they did get together.]

[sushidog.livejournal.com]

It's also quite important if your penultimate list member has a descriptor; "I studied French, theology, international politics, and economics" rather than "I studied French, theology, international politics and economics" (the latter could suggest that the economics studied were international).
Is there a sensible argument _against_ the Oxford comma, other than grounds of taste?

[flick.livejournal.com]

Is there a sensible argument _against_ the Oxford comma, other than grounds of taste?

"I went to dinner with Ann, Bob's mother, and Bob."

Is that two people or three?

[steer.livejournal.com]

Wow, like synchronicity man. That was spookily similar to my example.

[flick.livejournal.com]

Woah...

[stevek.livejournal.com]

All very noble, but I think you're missing the important questions here: what did you eat, was it nice and who paid? ;-)

[steer.livejournal.com]

Is there a sensible argument _against_ the Oxford comma, other than grounds of taste?

"I had lunch with Hester, a well-known netgoth, and Simon."

Did I have lunch with two people or three?

"I had lunch with Hester, a well-known netgoth and Simon."

I clearly had lunch with three people.

[sushidog.livejournal.com]

Hm; I would have said that the second version is just as unclear as the first, actually!

[steer.livejournal.com]

The second version could not grammatically be two people because the subordinate phrase "a well-known netgoth" would need commas at either end to be two people. So if you assume that the writer is grammatical then it is unambiguous. The first version is ambiguous even if you assume that the author is grammatical (but is allowing the Oxford commar).

So I guess it IS ambiguous, but only if you assume that the author has poor gramamar.

[sushidog.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I guess so; the answer would perhaps be the change the order of the list! :-)

[flick.livejournal.com]

If there are two people, "a well known net-goth" is a parenthetical clause. As such, it should be enclosed in either brackets or commas. The lack of a second comma int he second example means that it is *not* a parenthetical clause, and therefore that there are three people.

[flick.livejournal.com]

Oh, and, yes: there will be people at Clarets this week, I should be one of them.

[d-floorlandmine.livejournal.com]

Huzzah!

[stevek.livejournal.com]

If I'm not taking Lisa home (or busy elsewhere) I might pop over too. :-)